Debugger Zero

Hello,

I am currently putting a team together to create new Xbox Live Arcade games. They will be using the XNA development tool and the projects will be financed by myself.

How long will it be untill Indy developers can sell their games online in order to re-coup some of the money and produce additional games

Any help is appreciated.

Regards

Ian



Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

sarge mat

Well first you need to make the game and talk to Microsoft about developing it for Xbox live arcade. You will also need to buy XNA pro next year so your game can be sold.

I have made the common mastake of thinking about bring the game to XBL arcade etc etc and not actualy developing the game. Make working on your project your main priority. As you are useing XNA it wont cost you anything to develop it.





Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

Debugger Zero

Thanks for the rapid response,

I have a team of friends and paid profesionals which should keep the costs down but in order to realise the game properly it will take both time and money. And when money is involved it will have to be run properly, with timeframes, milestones and a final deadline. This money would be an investment as well as a hobby. Without knowing if we could publish it online a get some return it is off putting, and may deter cluster groups from developing games and push the overall quality of Indy games down.

I understand that every Tom, Dick ,and Harry will create an asteriods clone but for those that are targeting the X-Box live Arcade style (with HD versions of speedball2 or Supercars for example) is there any documentation or process in place to find out the likelyhood of getting on XBLA or even just selling your game in the XNA section of the Xbox360.

Regards

Ian






Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

sarge mat

you should find a email address for the arcade team on the US Xbox.com. Check at the bottom of the page. I think if you want to sell it you will have to bring it to arcade as everything in the XNA section has to be free as far as i know.



Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

David Weller - MSFT

Your first step is to get hooked up with a publisher that already has an agreement with Microsoft to publish Xbox-based games, or you can build your prototype game (if you haven't already) and contact people at arcade@microsoft.com. Do NOT attempt to contact them before you have something ready to demonstrate. The Xbox Live Arcade team does not function as an investor nor as a publisher.




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

vhold

sarge mat wrote:
Well first you need to make the game and talk to Microsoft about developing it for Xbox live arcade.


That's a fairly steep first step. I think more clear information on how indie developers can get onto Xbox Live Arcade is definitely in order.

I can't help but feel Microsoft is being purposefully tight lipped in this regard because they'd like people to hope for the best and put in a lot of effort without any promise of reward and then be able to throw any bone as an offer and get great games on the cheap. It kinda smells of how big record labels treat small artists.

I know that's being conspiratorially minded, but you have to admit that the lack of information in this department has a somewhat purposeful feeling.

I guess at the same time I have to admit it's a complicated issue because if there was some guaranteed way of getting onto Live Arcade, traditional publishers would be upset by the flood of clones and there would be a lot of questionable content.

I think the conversation on these issues should definitely be opened up a bit, so people can feel secure that investing effort won't be lost.




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

gmcbay

There is no conspiracy and I don't see what conversation needs to be had in this area. If you build a great game that runs on the 360 and is likely to sell a lot of units and differentiate the 360 in some significant way, Microsoft will be very interested in publishing your game on XBLA because doing so is in their best interest. That's all there is to it.

Just go into it with the mindset that getting on XBLA is like getting into the big leagues of pro sports, as far as casual game publishing goes. Many will try, very few will ever reach that level, no matter how much time and effort they devote. If you've never developed a commercially successful game before, the chance of breaking through is very small. You mention Microsoft doing something to make people "feel secure that investing effort won't be lost". They can't do that. 99% of small/casual indie games for any platform end as unpublished failures with all effort being "lost" (though for people who are really dedicated, I wouldn't say the effort is truly lost, nothing teaches as effectively as failure).

Until you have a great game built, you have nothing, so why should Microsoft or any other big publisher waste any time dealing with you or the 100,000 other people who think they are going to create the Next Big Thing They simply don't have the resources. That's life. If you want to hedge your bets, and you should, target both the PC and the 360 so if your game is rejected by Microsoft for XBLA publishing you can at least publish it to the PC shareware indie market.






Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

David Weller - MSFT

vhold wrote:
It kinda smells of how big record labels treat small artists.

I know that's being conspiratorially minded, but you have to admit that the lack of information in this department has a somewhat purposeful feeling.

Indeed, that is how the game industry has worked in the past. Our vision with XNA Game Studio Express is to help change that. HOWEVER: The infrastructure is not yet in-place to help independent game developers get past that really big first step. We (and more specifically, I) are working hard to get it in place for 2007. In my case, that means I've voluntarily given up two weeks of holiday vacation just to drive this forward.

There is DEFINITELY nothing "purposeful' about it. Indeed, that would be insane -- we made XNA Game Studio Express to help lower these barriers (and are still working on it). Microsoft is a corporation, but the Game Development Group here (of which 40 or so are attached to XNA GSE and the XNA Framework) are people that are passionate about making games and lowering the barriers to game development for everybody. Take your conspiracies to Slashdot, you'll find many sympathetic ears there.

Sorry, but I just get a little ticked off when people make posts that seem to dehumanize this hard-working team of developers.






Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

vhold

Ah, thanks for the replies. Sorry I came off as being an XNA hater, I tried to make a somewhat balanced comment.




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

epoxyRedux

does anyone know if microsoft allows M rated games on xbla




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

waruwaru

Well, I am sure the Parental Control is there for a reason... :) I imagine if a game has potential, rules can be bend.




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

Jim Perry

What arcade game would be rated M (besides maybe Mortal Kombat) !




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

waruwaru

Err, something like strip poker I am sure there is a market for something like that (just look at the direction where G4TV is headed). I wonder what is the official guide line for the XBLA say.

I wonder the same for XNA games, there isn't any enforcement of rating system on XNA games. So parental control is all or nothing. I wonder if there will be some form of review/approval process before people can share their games (when the sharing is available).






Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

epoxyRedux

actually i was looking into this and i noticed at least one game on xbla that is M.

Doom.

so i think it's safe to say that M rated games are ok, but i doubt msoft will allow strip poker games...haha




Re: Game Technologies: General Selling Games on Xbox Live Arcade

waruwaru

epoxyRedux wrote:
so i think it's safe to say that M rated games are ok, but i doubt msoft will allow strip poker games...haha

I have heard that people use their Vision Cam to do naughty things in UNO... ;)