Arda Cetinkaya

I have Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME graphic card with no support for shaders.

Is it possible to develop a 3d application with XNA Framework under this condition.When I run a tutorial project I got the message "Both a valid vertex shader and pixel shader (or valid effect) must be set on the device before draw operations may be performed."

I am new to XNA concept. Before I was developing with MDX 1.1 and I can develop 3d application with out shader support. So how can do this with XNA...




Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

George Clingerman

It isn't possible with XNA. The minimum requirements for XNA require a video card with at least shader 1.1 support. You can develop without it, but you won't be able to test your applications and run them on computers that don't meet at least that requirement.

There is currently no way around this and no support for XNA development on PC's that don't meet the minimum requirements. However, video cards that meet the requirements aren't very expensive and you should be able to pick on up relatively cheaply.





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Animatronic

H mm,thanks I lot...I was searching net, but can not find just a clear answer like this...

For developing any 2d application with XNA framework, are there any restrictions or requirements...






Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Jim Perry

Just those that are listed on the FAQ page - the shader requirement which you've already discovered. XP SP2 is also the supported OS though some have been able to get it to run under NT and Vista.




Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

George Clingerman

Yeah, the requirements are more specific to XNA itself and really do not differ between 2D and 3D development.

So, even 2D development will require a video card that supports at least shader 1.1





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Jonas Beckeman

I haven't looked much into XNA yet, but is there no way we can write our own renderer Is there a specification of the interfaces it would need to implement, and a way to load it (on the PC) instead of the standard XNA renderer If not, will this be possible in XNA Professional (I'd say it wouldn't be so pro without it..)

A propos, I can't figure out by the announcements if Pro requires VSTS - will it

These are very important issues to our studio if we're to go with XNA.

Thanks





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Jim Perry

Not much has been said yet about the Pro or Studio versions. I would imagine they'd have a bit more flexibility than Express though.




Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Cygon4

There was a thread just this week about how to use the reference rasterizer, effectively allowing you to test XNA games without a suitable graphics card: Using reference rasterizer on virtualized windows/xna.

But I also suggest that you pick up a cheap shader 2.0 graphics card. Testing your game in the reference rasterizer at 0.1 fps won't get you anywhere :)

-Markus-





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Animatronic

I have started to look at some documents about reference rasterizer, but as I had gone so far, it is not a good idea to work on I think. I will be waiting for the new display adapters, maybe it is more suitable when they are out.

So maybe it is not neccesary to talk about in here, but the topic is hot :) so is it possible to develop windows applications with XNA. I mean with viewports,designing a simple 3d cad program maybe. If testing and developing is hard(impossible) with a display card without shader support, I think this is also impossible. Is XNA just for game developing...






Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Jim Perry

Animatronic wrote:
Is XNA just for game developing...

No. Right now the focus is on game development, but there's no reason you couldn't design a CAD program with it. Any machine used for CAD should have a high-powered graphics card so the XNA requirements shouldn't be a problem. You're not (hopefully) going to be doing CAD on a machine with a graphics chip on the motherboard.






Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Shawn Hargreaves - MSFT

 Jonas Beckeman wrote:

I haven't looked much into XNA yet, but is there no way we can write our own renderer


XNA isn't really a renderer as such, it's just a low level API for drawing graphics, roughly similar in scope to something like OpenGL or MDX. So it wouldn't really be meaningful to plug in a different renderer via an interface. The expectation is that people will be building higher level renderers on top of the XNA graphics API.

Of course you could just ignore the XNA graphics functionality and use some other API to do your drawing. On Windows, XNA is just an assembly like any other, so you could use some parts of it while ignoring others.

There are no other graphics API's available on Xbox, though, so you won't be able to run on Xbox if you go that route. Also, graphics is such a big part of XNA that I'd have to wonder, if you weren't going to use our graphics functionality, what else is left that makes it worth using XNA at all

 Jonas Beckeman wrote:

A propos, I can't figure out by the announcements if Pro requires VSTS - will it



Pro does not exist yet, and no details have been announced about it.





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Jonas Beckeman

Shawn Hargreaves - MSFT wrote:

XNA isn't really a renderer as such, it's just a low level API for drawing graphics [...] I'd have to wonder, if you weren't going to use our graphics functionality, what else is left that makes it worth using XNA at all

Seems you're forgetting about the content pipeline That (and the components etc that people are going to write for XNA) is what I'm interested in. MDX works fine for me, or OpenGL for mono apps, or software rendering for some apps (yes, for PC, not X360). A good resource management system, with importers, compilers etc is much harder to get right.





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Shawn Hargreaves - MSFT

You could certainly use the content pipeline to drive some other rendering technology, but you'd have to do a bit more work. The built in output types and ContentTypeWriter / ContentTypeReader implementations are obviously closely tied to our graphics classes, so you would have to replace the end portion of the pipe. The build infrastructure, importers, intermediate object model, and loader system can be applied to any output types you like, though.





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Jonas Beckeman

So by studying and duplicating the public interfaces for graphics classes I could write my own renderer No hidden internal methods or classes are used Does the content pipeline uses a plugin pattern (so it merely needs interfaces) or would I have to name all namespaces/dlls like the originals and "fool" the system into thinking it's running standard XNA

I understand this is very low priority for you, but I would appreciate it if you could confirm this before I start spending time on looking closer at it.

BTW, would it be illegal to use the Reflector and try to reverse-engineer the XNA rendering classes





Re: XNA Framework using XNA Framework with no shader capability display driver???

Shawn Hargreaves - MSFT

The content pipeline is not tied to the XNA graphics system. There's no point trying to duplicate our public interfaces: that just happens to be the way we do graphics, but if you want to do graphics some other way, you could extend the pipeline to provide whatever kind of data your preferred graphics API wants to consume.