Xefan

I'm a little puzzled about what the creators club actually includes, I've checked the FAQs and can't really find an answer. I have however managed to find the following:

"The XNA Creators Club is available on Xbox LiveR Marketplace for $49 (U.S.) for a four-month subscription, or $99 (U.S.) for an annual subscription. Both subscriptions provide aspiring game developers with access to thousands of game assets from Microsoft and key partners such as Turbo Squid Inc., as well as white papers, specialized starter kits, samples and technical product support to help turn Your World, Your Game into a reality."

I signed up for a year because it sounds like quite a good package, however there seems to be no information provided on how to access these assets, the white papers, the starter kits, the product support and samples. Is it just that this content isn't available yet If so, it seems rather a rip off currently - the XNA launcher software is free, so essentially it's 65 a year just to be given permission to able to compile direct to the 360

Perhaps I'm the one in the wrong here and I've missed something obvious and if that's the case I'd be grateful if someone could point me in the right direction!

Hope someone can help clear this up for me. Thanks in advance!


Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Jim Perry

I know there's some models over at Turbo Squid. TorqueX is in open beta and the binaries will be free for that to allow you to create TorqueX XNA games. Have you checked the other sites linked to in what you quoted

I'd be quite happy to pay the $99 a year to allow me to develop my games for the 360 and play any other games that come out that people release. It's a great deal IMO.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Dudley

Yes but lets be honest here. During the first year I doubt there is going to be very much content released by developers on the 360 as they will still be getting used to XNA. Also, the content promised should have been available from day one. By the time there is stuff available its likely to be well towards the end of the year.

So whilst I don't totally object to Microsoft charging for the creators club - I don't think its worth it right now unless you are desperate to try code on the 360. In fact there is no point joinging the creators club unless as a developer you manage to complete a working game on the PC, *then* by all means join the club and try it on the 360.

To be honest though regardless of whether the creators club is worth it or not - I think the reason people keep questioning the price is that considering that Visual c# express and xna game studio express are free - why charge people just so that they can share their code on the xbox It does smack of being a bit of a rip off.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Jim Perry

So everything should be free What's going to be used to pay the developers of the XNA Framework and the people that implemented the 360 XNA code TANSTAAFL.

"Also, the content promised should have been available from day one. "

Based on what There's tons of content out there already.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Dudley

Whose going to pay the developers Microsoft of course - thats who they work for :)

If you *bothered* to read my previous post you would see that I did not say everything should be free and I said that I do not object to the Creators Club not being free - I just found it odd that all the other components of XNA are free (ie the main tools) and yet the creators club isn't - particularly when there is not much incentive to pay for the creators club yet.

Microsoft would be far wiser to make the creators club free now and instead charge developers small amounts for downloadable content for XNA - just like they charge for downloadable content for games.

As it stands in its current form there is zero incentive for me to join the creators club. Lets see - I want to try my program out on the XBOX - hmm that'll be $99 please! I don't think so.

Of course there is a tonne of content "out there" - but it's not part of the creators club and I can already get that for free (or pay for it) - but based on the description of what the Creators club is supposed to be - its worded like there will be additional or new content available when clearly there isn't at this time.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Nick Gravelyn

The reason they don't charge for XNA on Windows is because that platform already has numerous ways to make games for it that are free being Visual Studio Express and many others. They can't charge. However, for all the work they've done moving the Compact framework over to Xbox 360 and creating a way to simultaneously program for Windows and Xbox 360, they are going to need to somehow get revenue from this service to pay the programmers. Until now, you couldn't play your own games on an Xbox 360. Now you can, you just have to pay a small licensing fee. It's way better than shelling out for an official dev-kit.

As you said, you can very well just work on a game for Windows first and get the Creator's Club when you have it finished. Many people I'm sure will do this. But I personally don't think it's worth my time to work so hard on just Windows. You will inevitably make your game too PC-centric thus making it not work as well on Xbox 360. I guess it all depends on your primary target audience.




Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Grotius

I don't have a problem with paying $99 for access to the 360. But I agree with the original poster that the advertising for the Creators Club promises more than just access. It talks about code samples and other useful content. When I saw it, my reaction was, hmm, my game isn't ready for the 360 yet, but I wonder what that extra content is If MS promised only one thing -- the ability to compile on the 360 -- that would be fine. But they're promising more. None of that extra content is available yet, I gather



Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Xefan

The Turbo Squid stuff and TorqueX is available regardless of whether you pay for the creators club, so again it suggests that all the subscription really offers is permission to build to your 360, which, when there's not even a proper way to distribute 360 games yet seems rather a rip off.

I do understand the XNA/GSE developers position in that most likely they would love more resources to provide the kind of things that the creators club marketing stuff suggests we would get, but can't provide them until they've shown to Microsoft's execs that the whole thing is profitable, but I was more confirming that I was right in beleiving that all we get right now is indeed simply permission to build to the 360 out of the creators club. I do have to agree with the post above however in that the creators club should've been entirely free now until MS can provide the things promised. Here's hoping it wont  be more than a couple of months max until we start seeing what we've paid for - I am an early adopter and do understand that early adoption has it's problems (hell, I've been a Torque Shader Engine licensee since it was first made available to the public) so I'm not totally misunderstanding of the situation. I'd just like to beleive that I haven't been ripped off too badly such that 12months down the road I still wont have been given anything worthwhile for my subscription!





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Dave Mitchell - MSFT

The XNA Creators Club membership nets you several benefits. Of those on deck that I can talk publicly about:

  • you can develop, deploy, test and play your games on your own Xbox 360 as you noted
  • you'll benefit from being the first and at times only benefactors of additional services, content and resources.
  • you'll gain access to new content, resources and samples on a regular basis throughout your membership period
  • you'll have access to member-only exclusive promotions

There's great value in having access to a previously closed platform nothing quite like being able to play your own games on your Xbox 360 but we realize there's a growing appetite for more. I can't speak directly to the timing and specifics of these offerings but I can tell you that the value of the membership will absolutely grow over time. That is the very design of the "Club". We've designed a program that will evolve and grow with you throughout the entire duration of your membership rather than having access to a static set of resources upon sign-up. Just hang tight for a little longer and you'll start to see what I mean.

--dave





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Xefan

Thanks Dave, that's exactly the type of answer I was after ;)

One more question though (if you're allowed to answer it!), how will we go about accessing this content Is our creators club membership tied to our passport account via our gamertag and will hence be accessed via a web site or is it pulled off the marketplace somehow I understand if you can't answer but I'm just wondering where I should keep an eye out for news/releases of this type of content! ;)





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Dave Mitchell - MSFT

Xefan - we'll have answers to those and other related questions "real soon now". :)

As always, keep an eye out in these forums and our XNA Dev Center at http://msdn.com/xna. As updates become publicly available, that is where we'll let our community know.

--dave





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Dudley

I'm sorry but this doesn't cut it.

You charge the full subscription from day one - but 3 out of the 4 "Advantages" you mention don't yet exist and you can't talk about them or say when they will be available Nice. Sign me up for 2 subscriptions :)

Maybe "as the updates become available" is the point at which you should charge a subscription and not before

Sure, Microsoft developers need to eat just like anyone else - but I still think charging for content is a better sales model. That way indie developers can choose which content or 3d models etc they wish to have rather than just pay a lump sum for content which they have no idea they'll even want or need.

Lets just hope that when the content does materialise its good quality and plentiful - rather than just the odd model here and there.

As it stands, for indie developers, the creators subscription is not worth the money.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Jim Perry

Dudley wrote:
As it stands, for indie developers, the creators subscription is not worth the money.

As an indie developer, I have to disagree. Even if there were no other benefits, I'd glady pay the $99 a year for the ability just to develop XNA games for the 360 that others can play (and possibly buy down the road). Who know what doors that might open in the future The added benefit of being able to play any XNA games that are released is a bonus. The possibility of getting my game on Live Arcade is incredible. Anything on top of that is more icing on top of a foot high cake.

I guess it's a matter of viewpoint. I find it money well spent.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

Dudley

Nobody is denying that building a game for the XBOX will be cool, but Xefan's original post was not questioning that - he was simply pointing out that Microsofts sales pitch promised more than just compilation on the XBOX. To quote again..

"...subscriptions provide aspiring game developers with access to *thousands* of game assets from Microsoft..."

That is a bad promise - it should say "...subscriptions will *eventually* provide.....". Of course had they done that its likely that far less people would have subscribed from day one.

I'm sure that after a year or two $99 per will seem like a bargain - but, excluding the promotional "DreamBuildPlay" competition which of course is designed to increase subscription levels - I still think its going to be quite a while before you see regular games on xbox live built by indie developers.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express What does creators club include right now?

buster2000

I have no problem with paying for the XNA creators club subscription just so that i can port games over to my XBOX. So much so that I even went and paid for it when I was getting a free subscription for attending the UK launch event (I just couldn't wait).

However I do think Microsoft were a little economical with the truth when advertising XNA before it's release. As already mentioned the models from Turbo Squid were already freely available before XNA and if you actually go and download a few of them you'll find that a lot of the models on Turbo Squids XNA section are not compatable with the content pipeline.

Where are the new starter kits Suely XNA racer must be ready for release And why is the dream build play website still just a place holder The competition was supposed to start in January and there still isn't any information on the site.

I do realise that microsoft has great things instore for microsoft and I do realise that the XNA subscription is a cost recoup excersise so that microsoft can launch the "You Tube of Video Games" which is something I can't wait for. XNA and GSE is a really great tool and for microsoft to pull it all together is a great achievement but surely there must be some sort of bait that microsoft can keep chucking our way.