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Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

Maerius

As far as I know there's no such thing. XNA Game Studio integrates only with Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition. It sounds really scary, but don't neglace XNA. I don't want to use Express having Team Edition too so I'm working on 2 projects and I suggest you to do the same.

Start a new Window Application (VS2005 non-Express) C# / C++/CLI / VB.NET project, f.e. SpaceWars, and create a distinct project in VS2005 Express, f.e. SpaceWars.Resources (distinct solution) and place there any necessary game resources. Configure SpaceWars.Resources project to output the .dll (and the corresponding content resources) into the SpaceWars output directories. Write your code in SpaceWars. You can use XNA in your Team Edition, having all the benefits related with it, like class diagrams (my favourite :) ) or mixing diffrent languages (C++/CLI for C++ wrappers) in a single solution. It's even better than having all this stuff in a single project.

If you want to write a custom importer, you can do it in your "Team", as the DLL assembly file interests you as a result.




Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

waruwaru

If you want to develope XNA games/apps for Windows, you can install XGSE to get the XNA stuff onto your system. You can then add the XNA as references in your own C# projects. You can uninstall XGSE afterwards and continue to dev XNA games for Windows.

If you want to develope XNA games/apps for Xbox, you *have* to use XGSE.

If you want MS to support using XNA Game Studio with other versions of Visual Studio 2005, please cast your vote here:

https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx FeedbackID=190037&SiteID=226






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

ProfEclipse

It's kind of silly to vote for this, since MS has already stated:

1. Why XGSE currently only supports C# Express.

2. That they are working on supporting other languages.

3. That the GSPro version will work with non-Express studios.

If they already know it's an issue and they are already working on it, what is the point of voting in the feedback section Unless, perhaps, it just makes you feel better.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

waruwaru

 ProfEclipse wrote:

1. Why XGSE currently only supports C# Express.

...

3. That the GSPro version will work with non-Express studios.

Well, the "official" reasoning behind one is that they ran out of time, and they would want us to be able to dev on xbox asap.  That is fine and I understand perfectly.  Now if they say, MS don't want to support VS2005 Pro with XGSExpress because they want us to buy XGS Pro.  To me, that is approaching bait-n-switch since:

1. there is no official feature list for XGSE

2. Pro at this point is vapor-ware, and lots of things were "promised"/hinted before Pro came into the picture

I don't know about you, but I would be miffed if I have to pay more money to use a tool (VS2005Pro) that I already paid for.  Judging from MS Connect and how this topic comes up every few days, it is one of the most requested-feature/complaints.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

Jim Perry

waruwaru wrote:

ProfEclipse wrote:

1. Why XGSE currently only supports C# Express.

...

3. That the GSPro version will work with non-Express studios.

Well, the "official" reasoning behind one is that they ran out of time, and they would want us to be able to dev on xbox asap. That is fine and I understand perfectly. Now if they say, MS don't want to support VS2005 Pro with XGSExpress because they want us to buy XGS Pro. To me, that is approaching bait-n-switch since:

1. there is no official feature list for XGSE

2. Pro at this point is vapor-ware, and lots of things were "promised"/hinted before Pro came into the picture

"promised" Where and when were things "promised" Features are routinely dropped from games and applications due to time constaints.

I don't understand the reasoning here. GSE was never, AFAIK, promised to work with VS. GSE and GSPro are targeted at two totally different audiences. GSPro will contain functionality that indies and hobbyists won't have access to (Live features) since they're not registered developers so why should they pay for something they can't use

GSPro isn't vaporware. Check wikipedia for the defintion. Duke Nukem Forever is vaporware.

waruwaru wrote:
I don't know about you, but I would be miffed if I have to pay more money to use a tool (VS2005Pro) that I already paid for.

The thing is, you don't have to pay more money to use XNA with VS. Things like the IDE content pipeline functionality and game templates are not part of XNA, they're part of GSE.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

Glenn Wilson

People really need to read the FAQ. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/aa937793.aspx






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

waruwaru

 Jim Perry wrote:
"promised" Where and when were things "promised" Features are routinely dropped from games and applications due to time constaints.

I don't understand the reasoning here. GSE was never, AFAIK, promised to work with VS. GSE and GSPro are targeted at two totally different audiences. GSPro will contain functionality that indies and hobbyists won't have access to (Live features) since they're not registered developers so why should they pay for something they can't use

Where is the line between "hobbyists", "indies" and "professional"   Where does it say Live Features won't be available to GSE And why can't they use Live Features   Unless MVP titles granted access to insider information, you and I get the same info from these forums and the web.  The problem is that the official information we have are few and incomplete, and now the additional info we get are very vague and dances around the issues.  I personally feel that leaving paid customer in uncertainty is not a very good way to do business.

Yes, there isn't an URL that says GSE is "promised" to work with VS2005.  When this first came up, the reasons were XGSE team time and resource-constratints, and people said, they are working on supporting different languages and supporting VS2005-non-express.  Notice on the XNA team blog below that no mention of a professional version of XGS.

http://blogs.msdn.com/xna/archive/2006/10/10/XNA-Game-Studio-Express_2C00_-C_2300_-and-Visual-C_2300_-2005-Express-Edition.aspx

Obviously we wanted to support every language and every version of Visual Studio,....

...

I know many of you will be disappointed that we didn¡¯t support your language or your version of Visual Studio in our first release. Given all the data we feel like we made the right call for this release which is but the first of many more to come.  We will revisit these decisions in future versions of XNA Game Studio ...

Where does it say VS2005 Pro/Team is only supported in Pro and not in the next version of Express   I don't think I have seen a MSFT person put it down in writings yet.  I keep seeing this response marked as answers though.  Is it true or not   Other uncertainties I can think of include youtube-of-indie-games, program sharing via Live, gamer tag/ranking access, tcpip/udp network apis, 3d model animation apis, official fonts/text apis, and whether Pro version will differentiate by IDE functionality or by API libraries.

The FAQ is updated.  Some of the info there now is simply not all available back in December.  Even as of now, there is still no detail list of what you get for your money, or what "additional functionality" will require more investments.  A simple search will point you to many posts marked as answers that hint at different features.  That's where people get the wrong impressions from.  As long as there are loose ends, there will be speculations and misplaced expectations.  It would be nice to have a table/chart comparing the pro and express edition like what they do with TurboTax/VisualStudio/Vista.

Q: What¡¯s the difference between XNA Game Studio Express and XNA Game Studio Professional
A: XNA Game Studio Express and XNA Game Studio Pro are related products targeting non-professional game developers and established professionals respectively. Both products integrate with Microsoft Visual Studio. XNA Game Studio Express is intended for the hobbyist/small development group and therefore designed to help create non-commercial games. XNA Game Studio Professional will include additional functionality needed by professional game developers wishing to create commercial, signed titles

 Jim Perry wrote:
The thing is, you don't have to pay more money to use XNA with VS. Things like the IDE content pipeline functionality and game templates are not part of XNA, they're part of GSE.

Yeah, I just can't deploy and no Xbox debuggingin unless I use XGSE.  You can't even compile/build XGSE projects using VS2005 ProThat kinda kills the "I" in IDE.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

Jim Perry

 waruwaru wrote:
Where is the line between "hobbyists", "indies" and "professional"  

Professionals write AAA games for a living, have an established presence in the industry and usually agreements with publishers and companies like MS to get dev kits. Indies might (rarely) make a living at game development, but they're usually more in the casual games market and you likely won't see their games on store shelves.

 waruwaru wrote:
Where does it say Live Features won't be available to GSE And why can't they use Live Features  

Q: Does the XNA Framework include the ability to use Xbox Live
A: The initial release of the XNA Framework on the Xbox 360 does not have any support for networking. We realize this is a big area of interest for game developers and are actively working on a solution for the next release.

Q: Do we have network or Xbox Live access on the Xbox 360 via the XNA Framework
A: On Windows you can use System.Net or any other network library. On Xbox 360 there is no network support. Local multi-player support is supported on the Xbox 360 however.

No networking, no Live.  Providing non-registered developers access to the Live functionality would open up a huge can o' worms. The possibility of "contamination" (Gamer score inflation for example, especially with the recent announcement of your score/achievements actually meaning something in the near future) to the service is the biggest reason why they haven't done it, and probably won't, at least not to the regular Live area. I wouldn't be suprised to see an XNA Live area though.

 waruwaru wrote:
Unless MVP titles granted access to insider information, you and I get the same info from these forums and the web. 

Well, actually it does in some cases.  In this case, however, it's just a matter of reading everything that's been put out there.

 waruwaru wrote:
The problem is that the official information we have are few and incomplete, and now the additional info we get are very vague and dances around the issues.  I personally feel that leaving paid customer in uncertainty is not a very good way to do business.

"paid customer" The only thing you're paying for with XNA is the Creator's Club, everything else is free. The reason why the official information is the way it is would be because GS Pro isn't a priority at this point and GSE was just released a couple of months ago. The XNA team can't say something that's not written in stone and at this point nothing other than what's been released is. I would think that would be obvious. Companies get in trouble when they release info that turns out to not be the case. If they did that, people would be whining (as if they aren't already ) about them not living up to what they said. You can't have it both ways.

 waruwaru wrote:
Yes, there isn't an URL that says GSE is "promised" to work with VS2005.  When this first came up, the reasons were XGSE team time and resource-constratints, and people said, they are working on supporting different languages and supporting VS2005-non-express. 

"people said" Did they say the VS support would be integrated into GSE I don't remember that being the case, but maybe I missed it.

 waruwaru wrote:
Notice on the XNA team blog below that no mention of a professional version of XGS.

http://blogs.msdn.com/xna/archive/2006/10/10/XNA-Game-Studio-Express_2C00_-C_2300_-and-Visual-C_2300_-2005-Express-Edition.aspx 

Umm, because that wasn't the point of the post. The point was explaining why GSE exists as it does.

 waruwaru wrote:
Where does it say VS2005 Pro/Team is only supported in Pro and not in the next version of Express  

I would think the "Express" part of the title would be the giveaway. Maybe they'll change this in the future, but I'm not holding my breath. I would imagine supporting both IDEs would be problematic and not worth the effort given the purpose of GSE.

 waruwaru wrote:
I don't think I have seen a MSFT person put it down in writings yet.  I keep seeing this response marked as answers though.  Is it true or not   Other uncertainties I can think of include youtube-of-indie-games, program sharing via Live, gamer tag/ranking access, tcpip/udp network apis, 3d model animation apis, official fonts/text apis, and whether Pro version will differentiate by IDE functionality or by API libraries.

The FAQ is updated.  Some of the info there now is simply not all available back in December.  Even as of now, there is still no detail list of what you get for your money, or what "additional functionality" will require more investments. 

Again with the money - what money See above about not talking about what's not written in stone.

 waruwaru wrote:
A simple search will point you to many posts marked as answers that hint at different features.  That's where people get the wrong impressions from.  As long as there are loose ends, there will be speculations and misplaced expectations.  It would be nice to have a table/chart comparing the pro and express edition like what they do with TurboTax/VisualStudio/Vista.

Q: What¡¯s the difference between XNA Game Studio Express and XNA Game Studio Professional
A: XNA Game Studio Express and XNA Game Studio Pro are related products targeting non-professional game developers and established professionals respectively. Both products integrate with Microsoft Visual Studio. XNA Game Studio Express is intended for the hobbyist/small development group and therefore designed to help create non-commercial games. XNA Game Studio Professional will include additional functionality needed by professional game developers wishing to create commercial, signed titles

Unless you're a registered developer why are the GSPro features important You can't use them so why worry about them

 waruwaru wrote:
 Jim Perry wrote:
The thing is, you don't have to pay more money to use XNA with VS. Things like the IDE content pipeline functionality and game templates are not part of XNA, they're part of GSE.

Yeah, I just can't deploy and no Xbox debuggingin unless I use XGSE.  You can't even compile/build XGSE projects using VS2005 ProThat kinda kills the "I" in IDE.

As far as deploying and debugging on the 360 without using GSE I can only say - "so" Again, from the blog entry you pointed to:

"I know many of you will be disappointed that we didn¡¯t support your language or your version of Visual Studio in our first release. Given all the data we feel like we made the right call for this release which is but the first of many more to come."

As for GSE projects in VS2005 Pro, just link in the code from the GSE project to a VS project, assuming you're not using the GSE specific features. It's really not that big a deal.






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

waruwaru

Dude, I think we are arguing in circles here. Anyways, bottom line. We both agree that nothing is written in stone. We can argue what our $100/$50 is paying for, I am just saying XGSE is a fundemental part of the Creator's Club package, without XGSE, CC does not exist. I think we strongly disagree on what should be available in the Express edition. I am on the side that that XNA/XGSE should offer access, and let us decide what we will use or won't use. I care about the features available in Pro because it defines what's not available in Express. I think it would be a good idea for XGS team to provide a clear product roadmap and define limitations of each version. I simply wish the next patch/release of XGS Express (not Pro version) would contain more of the features I care alot about and a better non-Express IDE integration story that is not available in current release of XGS Express. Then I will stop whining... naah, that probably won't happen. ;)




Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

WendyF

Not to sound slow, but I don't get it... I love my resharper. I don't want another visual studio... I'm already paying for an msdn subscription... why do I need c# express i really wanted to hack the msi with orca, but that really didn't work out so well

i guess i need yet another development environment... all i want to do is play around...

where is this mystery professional edition anyway is there a beta somewhere




Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

ProfEclipse

The "why" is covered in the FAQ.

At this time there is no professional edition. It hasn't been written yet. All of the official information (very little) about the professional edition is also in the FAQ.

Your msdn subscription is irrelevant. VC# Express is free, so you can get it without a subscription. GSE is also free. Download them, install them and have fun. The missing features between Express and Standard/Pro/Team haven't stopped anyone from being able to create a game.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

waruwaru

ProfEclipse wrote:
The missing features between Express and Standard/Pro/Team haven't stopped anyone from being able to create a game.

None that you know of...






Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

ProfEclipse

waruwaru wrote:

ProfEclipse wrote:
The missing features between Express and Standard/Pro/Team haven't stopped anyone from being able to create a game.

None that you know of...

Touche.





Re: XNA Game Studio Express How to get XNA Game Studio for VS2005 Team Suite Edition????

wunda

I'm not sure I would classify any answer in the faq as a clear/detailed "why"

The real issue here is ReSharper and VisualAssist -- not gonna keep me from making a game, but I'm gonna be cursing without them (a whole lot)!