Mike McGrath

Given the increasing support for SVG in other browsers (see http://www.svg.org/story/2006/12/9/162846/181) when can we expect to see Internet Explorer support this popular specification

Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Dave Massy

It's curently too early to announce exact plans at this stage. We are certainly looking into this area though.

Of course IE does support VML a prevcursor to the SVG standard recommendation but we do understand this is nto the same a supporting the SVG recommendation.

Thanks
-Dave






Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Mike McGrath

Hi Dave. Thanks for your response. This question is just me thinking out loud after I spent some time last week comparing the WPF/E Dec.2006 CTP against SVG. After realizing that SVG wins out in many areas I was directed to this forum by Mike Harsh (WPF/E Program Manager) to query when, or if, Internet Explorer will support SVG

The thing is, I already see SVG burgeoning everywhere - on many Linux distros, on cellphones from the likes of Motorola and Nokia, and on web browsers such as Firefox and Opera. As SVG appears to offer some exciting possibilities for graphics presentation on a variety of media I feel it would be great to see IE leading these, instead of playing catch-up.

Rather than just "looking into this area" maybe I'm hoping there is "active development" on SVG support underway - but, this is just me thinkin' out loud




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Rob Lang

We're now 6 months on from this topic. Is Microsoft any closer to ditching VML in support for SVG Are they going to bother with SVG at all The recomendation has been out there for long enough now.

Where's the roadmap Where's the plan





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

GIS Dev

There is a major push away from desktop GIS to web-based GIS, particularly intranet GIS apps, that has been happening and will accelerate as GIS vendors realise their customers want spatially enabled applications, not just viewers.

Many developers, me included, cut these apps using ASP.Net for IE-only customers.

Right now, the discontinued Adobe SVG plug-in is our only efficient way of providing interactive maps. We are all hanging on a thread here. Common, Microsoft! Give us the tools to get the job done! We desparately need a plan for SVG 1.1 Full implementation. Lead the way, even if its a plug-in!!





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Paul Wirdnam

Couldn't agree more.

I work for a large multi-national corporation with a standardised desktop based on IE...so switching browers with native SVG support is not an option for us.

I need to understand how I can continue to develop SVG based web applications, and support our current ones. On the other hand, I also have to mitigate against potential issues once our current viewer, Abobe SVG Viewer, goes out of support in 1-Jan-2008.

So what am I to do The Renesis plugin alternative does not appear to be a viable alternative for us. Is it time for me to abandon SVG due to 1) a lack of support from Microsoft for this format (plus no message of intented future support) and 2) virtually no 3rd party plugins for IE to render SVG.

Any ideas anyone I think I'm caught between a rock and a hard place





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

jakinjak

SVG has been around for more than 4 years. If you don't see support by now, then the real MS-strategy is to let it die on the vine, along with the thousands of hours of developer time. Too bad.





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

rjstinyc

It is just my speculation but I would think that MS is betting on XAML, thus Silverlight, WPF and Expression Studio.

Just a business oriented thought.






Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Rutkowski

My two cents.... It's pretty sad that IE

hasn't been able to support SVG by now. Firefox has supported it for quite a while, and IE would certainly would benefit by supporting it. The whole silverlight plugin is not a decent replacement for the simple to use/understand open standard of SVG. Just do it. There's no reason not to have it, and IE can still support whatever priopietary vector graphics they want. Needless to say, it's simply annoying from a users point of view to go to another browser just to view SVG.





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Mike McGrath

Yes indeedy (ken ). This little thread has now been running for some time, and during that time Firefox has continued to increasingly support more features of the SVG specification. And SVG is widely used in Linux too. So SVG sure ain't going away anytime soon and it really would enhance the credibility of Internet Explorer if SVG support was introduced soon - especially if more standards compliant than Firefox. A confident move!




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

unique_username

Dave,

You need to change your signature! Unless I'm mistaken, you are no longer at Microsoft, thus your comments:
"It's curently too early to announce exact plans at this stage. We are certainly looking into this area though."

Are a little out of place. I would personally feel that "late" not "early" would be the correct statement too. SVG has been out for ages. I've built application pieces with it, but have ceased development because users were weary about downloading an un-supported pluggin to gain usage of the SVGs. (and I don't blame them)


I know Adobe doesn't want to put more $/time into it, since it is MS that should be running it natively... but MS should pick up the ball on this, and take some leadership here.


What frustrates us developers is the lack of info one way or the other on this. An IE8 roadmap would solve this, but requesting one would fall on deaf ears (again).

I suppose we could put in a "feature request" in the bug tracking system and track it there!...... but oh yeah can't do that.... its closed down.

I know you aren't in MS anymore, but if you have any "persuasion power" to get them to open up we would certainly appreciate it.










Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

infosia

Now it is 2008. Is it still too early to announce a timeline Is there a reason Microsoft refuses to support SVG. It is my experience that Microsoft gains rather than loosing by supporting Internet standards.






Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

Mike McGrath

Good point James. Just why is Microsoft refusing to support SVG

Any suggestions ...




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

dbs1uk

This is quite simple really - Silverlight.

Microsoft will not support SVG natively ever because they now want people to start using their own Silverlight product. The similarities between the proposed SVG 1.2 and Silverlight are quite staggering. SVG 1.1 already implements almost everything Silverlight can do (excluding embedding of video and audio etc). SVG already comprehensively covers all areas of drawing, animation, interactivity and scripting. It supports the full DOM model in the same sense as html, and supports full ECMA Script (JavaScript).

The reason Microsoft is not support this therefore, is because they know that they can push their own Silverlight product which is essentially the same thing as SVG 1.2 but without any of the standards support and distribute it under the pretence of supporting all 'major' platforms (Windows, OSX, IE, Firefox, Safari - but not on Linux) with a closed source plug-in. So, this presents developers with a problem: do you develop your website using the open SVG format which CAN be supported on any platform because it is an open standard, but IS not supported by Internet Explorer which immediately alienates over 50% of your users, or use the Silverlight plug-in which is maintained by Microsoft for a good majority of browsers but is not an open standard.

There it is, Microsoft will not support SVG because they know they can keep better control by forcing the use of their own Silverlight product.

I know that there is currently open source implementation or Silverlight (called Moonlight) but this will always be a case of just trying to re-engineer the Microsoft format rather than from an open standard which will always leave Microsoft in ultimate control of the market. There is also some other interesting projects currently in progress C theres the Batik project which is a full implementation of SVG1.1 in java, there is also the Renesis project which is developing a new proprietary SVG player which will work as a plug-in for Internet Explorer.




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development same old story - Support for SVG - let it die on the vine

unique_username

Although I REALLY hope this isn't the case, you do provide a pretty convincing view of the Microsoft anti-standards approach.