digitalpacman

While attempting, and I do mean only attempting, to develop my application I keep getting "this old feature is now broken in IE7"

Well here is a small list of what I can remember off the top of my head..

-----------------

$(id).onclick = 'alert(1);' <-- wont work until you forcefully update the DOM

$(id).setAttribute('onclick', 'alert(1)'); <-- wont work until you forcefully update the DOM

To update the DOM forcefully... $(id).parentNode.innerHTML += '';

After that innerHTML call, the onclick event assigned via properties will work.

-----------------

Another problem, which I, ironically got while trying to post this message is a very big problem that is present when using google maps (or says so by googling the error).

If you attempt to manipulate the DOM using appendChild, on the body element, which is a very popular method for things such as third party applications that need javascript to run on the "onload" without messing with the pages events, you get a "IE cannot display this page" and sometimes gives a DNS error... even when working local!

Example: document.body.appendChild(document.createElement("div"));

-----------------

The name attribute is still not able to be set via HTML attributes. You have to use createElement to change the name of the element dynamically. Which would mean removing and recreating an element to modify the name... pretty bad.

-----------------

Another one, which is actually quite amazing, and I have yet to discover why!

If you go to http://www.providesupport.com and use their cut and paste javascript to place the live chat software on your site, it disabled javascript after the first <script> following their cut and paste code.
Example:
<THEIR CODE>
<SCRIPT>WORKINGALERT();</SCRIPT>
<SCRIPT>THISALERTNEVERHAPPENS_ANDNOJSCRIPTERROR();</SCRIPT>

Weird eh I havn't tested it on a normal page, but every person I've ran into who put that on their site it happened.. there was maybe 5 people. If you take their code and put it at the end of your page, instead of where they tell you (their location is for customer convenience), then it works fine and dandy.

-----------------

style="page-break-after: always;" can't be applied to elements that have no contents.. such as..

<div>first page</div>
<div style="page-break-after: always;"></div> <-- doesnt work unless you put a &nbsp; or something.
<div>second page</div>

-----------------

This next one is freaking classic!!!

<div style="width: 25px; text-align: center; padding: 2px; border: 1px solid #000000; border-bottom-width: 0px; background-color: #CCCCCC;">X</div>

<div style="padding: 2px; border: 1px solid #000000; background-color: #CCCCCC; float: left; ">

<img src="my documents\aaaa.jpg" border="0" style="margin: 2px;" /></div>

Isnt the same as:

<div style="width: 25px; text-align: center; padding: 2px; border: 1px solid #000000; border-bottom-width: 0px; background-color: #CCCCCC;">X</div>

<div style="padding: 2px; border: 1px solid #000000; background-color: #CCCCCC; float: left; ">

<img src="my documents\aaaa.jpg" border="0" style="margin: 2px;" />

</div>

<div style="width: 25px; text-align: center; padding: 2px; border: 1px solid #000000; border-bottom-width: 0px; background-color: #CCCCCC;">X</div>

<div style="padding: 2px; border: 1px solid #000000; background-color: #CCCCCC; float: left; ">

<img src="my documents\aaaa.jpg" border="0" style="margin: 2px;" />&nbsp;</div>

-----------------

I'll try to report back here once I remember more! I have a list of like 20 pretty nasty bugs around here somewhere.



Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

digitalpacman

No one



Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

bill_csharper

hi digitalpacman, how do you feel about this ie7 thing in general

from what you posted, i guess you must be quite frustrated.

I'm not doing any dev on ie7 but as a user im quite unhappy about this release, i can't access many sites that worked just fine with ie6, pretty annoying. maybe this new security initiative caused all these troubles im all for a more secure browser, but without reasonable usability, security is just meaningless.





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

digitalpacman

I'm quite frustrated, yes.

Even using this site I often get the "DNS error please check your internet connection" when clicking new reply and such.

Then if I just.. hit back and try again.. it works.

Something about messing with the DOM makes the browser unhappy.

You know what I honestly feel they did with IE7 All they did was add a new skin, tabbed browsing, and a quote un-quote, native xmlhttprequest object with, magically, no prototyping abilty. Hax work-around much

I don't believe they worked on the rendering engine, or whatever you call it, in IE7 much. Like really, they tried to be more like firefox and pretty much failed pretty bad... and made it worse. They should just start working on an IE8 from scratch and get this thing pumped out properly.

It's funny though.. most people who complain about IE complain about document.all ruining the world. Why don't you just.. ignore it.. then it's like it not being there. The things I complain about are things you can't really get away with not doing. I mean who wants to have all their end div tags TOUCHING That just goes against how HTML is supposed to be. The point is to be able to have the source code look perdy, however you want with any spacing, and it will look the same. But IE smacks you in the face and says no, you're done do it my way.

As soon as IE7 got released, I got spammed with bug reports titled "IE7 wont..." from my technical support team.

I am a firm believer in Microsoft, and standardizing the internet around them, being the "global ruler", and not the magical W3C that came out of no where. I don't agree with alot of their "rulings", but people think they have the "right idea". What's funny is alot of the things people use commonly isn't even in the W3C compliance.

Once FireFox adopts onmouseenter and onmouseleave, I will no longer have anything to keep me using IE7. (whoever decided onmouseover and onmouseout should bubble should be shot in the face, repeadidly, I don't know anyone who actually uses the bubbling)

 

P.S. I forgot to mention... since IE7 isn't backwards compatible very well at all, is why people are so frustrated. Since Microsoft doesn't support their browsers being stand alone installs very well, which makes you get third party installs that "hack it", we now have three standard browsers to support! It's no longer make sure it works in IE, make sure it works in FF, cool it should generally work on all browsers then. No.. now it's make it work in IE7.. make it work in FF.. now jump on ANOTHER machine and check IE6... it's like keeping a MAC in the corner of the room to test MAC browsers.. now we need a MAC and a Microsoft OS just to test IE6. (In the work place, more often than not, your employer will not want you installing some cracked third party IE6 stand alone install)





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

digitalpacman

I found another huge problem.

IE7 does not fully support (infact it barely supports) css selectors.

input[type=text] will only work with a doctype declared.

table[bgcolor=ff0000] is not supported.

FF supports both of these

All elements and all tags and all values should be supported by selectors. If microsoft doesnt get smart and start adopting these. We wont be able to use this magnificient feature for like 10 years.





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

Jason D_dot_NET

It seems that IE 7 (still) has broken CSS rendering. I do not know why it isn't fixed though...




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

AnotherDayAnotherSegFault

Ironically, in deloping my little kisok app I have run into almost all of those. Sad

ho hum.

If only I could have got the neptun plugin working on FF Indifferent

workaround it is...

Seggie





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

unique_username

The issues digitalpacman noted at the beginning of this thread are generally known amongst the developer community, and have been mentioned to the MS development team during monthly chats with the MS Developers (up to the release of IE7), and were logged as bugs in the IE Feedback site (that was taken down when IE7 shipped).

Needless to say, 100% of the developers following the changes in IE7, were quite frankly quite *insert highly aggravated and annoyed term of choice here*.

Rumor has it, that MS has learned from this major PR blunder, and is actively seeking an alternative public bug tracking site/system, yet TBD/TBA.

What was most aggravating to developers, was that their input wasn't solicited, until the "rendering engine" changes were "locked-down" and "complete". Which meant that every bug entered was turned down with "maybe in a later release", or "design intent" (meaning it is broken, they know it, but it is "so" broken, that fixing it properly may cause more headaches for them.

Keep an eye on the "IE Blog", for up to the minute info... http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/default.aspx

but to be honest, be prepared for a let down... as mentioned, 95% of bugs reported in IE6/7 were not fixed, and there is no plan to fix them via. patches.







Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

mltsy

I do agree that IE has some big and interesting problems that need to be fixed - it's a daily annoyance for me as a web developer and I sincerely wish there were a more formal and organized way to report bugs.
However, I believe that it is our responsibility as web developers to write valid code if we want to count on getting the expected results, and the last two bugs you mentioned are actually results of invalid code.

First of all, every document must have a Doctype declaration to be valid. The reason you get unexpected results when you do not use a Doctype (even if your code is valid otherwise) is that old documents didn't have a Doctype so the accepted way of dealing with documents without Doctypes is to render them using legacy rendering mechanisms (from way back when CSS was new and standards were mushy) that will display old, invalid pages in a fashion somewhat similar to that in which they were intended to be displayed. Therefore, you need a Doctype declaration:

Code Snippet

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">


Now that you have that, you can't expect invalid code to work - which is why the selector for table[bgcolor="#ff0000"] doesn't work; bgcolor is an invalid attribute. Background colors should only be set using styles - which brings up the question, why in the world would you try to select for a style based on another attribute that should be set in the element's style Smile

If you are trying to do complicated graphical manipulations, I would suggest either mooTools (http://www.mootools.net) or Flash. Good luck!





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

digitalpacman

mltsy wrote:
I do agree that IE has some big and interesting problems that need to be fixed - it's a daily annoyance for me as a web developer and I sincerely wish there were a more formal and organized way to report bugs.
However, I believe that it is our responsibility as web developers to write valid code if we want to count on getting the expected results, and the last two bugs you mentioned are actually results of invalid code.

First of all, every document must have a Doctype declaration to be valid. The reason you get unexpected results when you do not use a Doctype (even if your code is valid otherwise) is that old documents didn't have a Doctype so the accepted way of dealing with documents without Doctypes is to render them using legacy rendering mechanisms (from way back when CSS was new and standards were mushy) that will display old, invalid pages in a fashion somewhat similar to that in which they were intended to be displayed. Therefore, you need a Doctype declaration:

Code Snippet

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">


Now that you have that, you can't expect invalid code to work - which is why the selector for table[bgcolor="#ff0000"] doesn't work; bgcolor is an invalid attribute. Background colors should only be set using styles - which brings up the question, why in the world would you try to select for a style based on another attribute that should be set in the element's style

If you are trying to do complicated graphical manipulations, I would suggest either mooTools (http://www.mootools.net) or Flash. Good luck!

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. But when using a transitional doctype bgcolor is infact supported and NOT invalid code. I ran all my tests WITH and WITHOUT a transitional doctype. Strict is well, too strict to have a flexible design aspect. I mean seriously, why would you want to hurt yourself just so you can say your document is strict compliant when all you did was waste your companies time and money pulling your hair out making sure its perfect when you can finish the same job asap in transitional Personally I prefer quirksmode I think w3c are a bunch of morons that need to get slapped in the face with a trout. I've found tuns of contridictions in their standards and the fact they are not quick and lenient into adding new amazing concepts really makes me angry.

All the bugs I posted are completely valid. If a web developer says "HERE WEBSITE, DO THIS!", and the browser does not do so, it's generally a bug because the intended cause is not the result. (Do not come back and flame well then everything should do anything, that would be childish and quite frankly really lame you understand my point. If you are a developer you know that's the number one rule. If your user thinks something is going to work a certain way, and it doesnt, then you have a design problem)





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

digitalpacman

I also have to mention, this forum is retarded. Why does it not post the newest topics at the END of the list, its so hard to find which ones the newest! Haha. Everytime I posted I could never find where it went.. now I understand it places it under where you pushed reply. LOL!

This is rediculous.. gawd if only mac weren't $$$ babies and their OS made any sense I'd totaly convert.





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

andrew_moshe

The fact that it's like that makes it so great. There is no bug in it. Bugs are a way of life for Microsoft. Don't tell me that if you had the ocasion to do what he did you wouldn't. That is just hipocricy, IE is by far the best web product. It is perfectly incompatible with other browsers and with it's earlier versions. I don't really see your problem here. You ppl voted for Bush. The whole world buys Windows. Hi tler was elected and supported(i am also a jew so this is not something racial). If they are so bad why do they end up where they are Ppl want this behaviour. Have you ever been in a relationship where your gf was so nice that you had to dump her and go for the one that cheated on you(even with the mailman) They want bugs and us developers want them too. Ppl depend on misery. This is punishment from God and Bill is here to deliver.
You can let Microsoft develop web pages and can move to looking inteligent while cleaining up temp folders for a quick buck.
Plus a good buck can be made from taking random succesful open source software from the internet and using find and replace like sun vm with microsoft vm or java with .net or ncsa mosaic/netscape with microsoft ie or pc dos with ms dos or word perfect with microsoft word and we can go on. After he bundles the find and replace product he makes it incompatible when he is in the lead.
Don't tell me the world is fair. I say praise Bill for his achievements and i only wish i could "invent" like you. Hope you sell to Somalia too. Bush did not forget their debt so he is on to something. They look kind of fat this year. Bundle windows with food supply equipent then charge for usage. And replace the logo with "Pay or stave! You are not relatives of mine and even if you were..".

So take care and don't be merry. Go the Microsoft way!




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

mltsy

Well, whatever works for you. The thing I like about the W3C standard is that at least it's a standard. If you would prefer to write each webpage 3 or 4 times, customizing it for each browser you want to support, nobody's going to stop you. The reason I use the strict DocType is that it's getting to the point where most browsers at least support that for the most part. If they don't yet, they will soon, because it is a standard. That's the great thing about standards. Once you have them, you can count on them - unlike proprietary protocols, languages and rendering quirks that change with each release of each browser.

Sure, the current W3C standards may not be perfect, but they are still useful. I won't flame about it, but I will say that you can't expect a browser to do what you say, just because another browser does it that way - in the same way that you can expect a German to do what you say if you say it in Spanish. What you can do, is find a language that most of your clients speak, like english. Browsers speak whatever languages they support, and if you don't speak strict XHTML (which is supported similarly across most browsers), they you'll have to speak whatever they speak. It seems to me that the "transitional" doctype isn't really much of a standard so much as it is just like saying "I'm going to use mostly english, but if I throw in something in spanish or german here and there that you understand, go ahead and do it." The Germans are not going to follow your Spanish instructions... if you catch my drift.




Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

digitalpacman

Since the original post I've found hundreds more bugs that really make my day miserable. But hey, I found almost just as many in FireFox too (not as many actually more like half).

I've felt it unnecesary to post them or try to contact microsoft because they obviously don't have the man power to fix these things in live patches. I understand the fact that they cant make changes like this because ppl have already developed sites to work a certain way and they dont want to break those sites but come on.. gota move forward one day.

And how can IE7 not have a .currentTarget or some kind of form of that man I mean jesus christ. That is by far the most limiting thing IE has going for it.

I'll post one thing I have that helps in that situation...

function this_AttachEvent(element, eventName, handlerName, handlerReference) {
eventName = eventName.toLowerCase();
element[handlerName] = handlerReference;

if (element.addEventListener) {
element.addEventListener(eventName, function(e) {element[handlerName](e);}, false);
}
else if (element.attachEvent) {
element.attachEvent('on' + eventName, function(e) {element[handlerName](e);});
}
else {
var originalHandler = target['on' + eventName];
if (originalHandler) {
element['on' + eventName] = function(e) {originalHandler(e); element[handlerName](e);};
}
else {
element['on' + eventName] = element[handlerName];
}
}
}

this_AttachEvent(document.getElementById('test'), 'mouseover', 'anythingreally', thisismyeventhandler);

function thisismyeventhandler(event) {

alert(this.nodeName);

}

this will always refer to the handling element... be sure to cancel bubbles

Anyway.. surprised this post is still getting hits....

I am a full supporter of Microsoft Internet Explorer. Down with FireFox. Down with the w3c. I am not being sarcastic.

Until FireFox supports onmouseenter onmouseleave and the various other "proprietary" options that IE supports that makes life golden I will always follow MS. Oh and the firefox GUI blows, lawl.

/flame firefox

/flame opensource community

/flame rich hypocrit w3c members

/flame flame flame

Hopefully I won't get any more notifications for this thread, lol ;p





Re: Internet Explorer Web Development Tuns of bugs in IE7, how to report?

mltsy

First of all, if you don't want to receive notifications of updates on this thread, feel free to turn them off...

For posterity, however, I think it's best to argue all points of view. I don't agree with the idea that the W3C is irrelevant simply because they don't adopt new technology as fast as a single private company does. As you have said yourself, MS hasn't done the best job of supporting what developers need, in spite of the fact that it doesn't have a consortium to report to.

So if we're going to end up dealing with insufficient technology for the time being (which will always be the case as long as we keep trying to to more with the technology we have), no matter which road we choose - I would prefer to take the standards road, so at least when we arrive at the technology we need, we don't have to specialize our pages for each browser to individually take advantage of that technology. Until then, I would use mouseenter and mouseleave in IE if they are necessary for my application, and use a temporary replacement for them in other browsers until they are adopted into the standard. And I agree that they should be adopted into the standard Smile

Summation: The W3C is useful, and it's standards should be adopted by everyone - browser developers, and web developers to move toward a standardized technology for the web. Also, MS has good ideas in IE (as do many others), which should be used where appropriate (not to the detriment of usability in other browsers) and adopted by the W3C if useful.