kcdclan

I was wondering if it is posable to binary program.

I know the it's the base of basicly all technoligy.
I want to get the most out of everything.

I would like to study and start learning this.
Mainly memory editing and such.

I want to be abel to design my own os that I can design to my needs.

Does networks send binary code or how does it work
I know programming I put text in and recive text.

Is that how it really works though
I don't think it does somthing in windows or w,e changes to where the modem and internet then it canges agen to where the cabe cable sends it.
I really like to know the base of alot of stuff.
That is why I wanted to goto college for C but i've not found a school i want for that.I also though about engenerring.

I know what I want to learn but what would be best for learning it

Like many of the higher developers use linux because it does not wast alot of memory on useless stuff.

I use both but Windows vista is really bad about it.

I have some knowlge of hex and binary.
I use to think hex was how memory was but then I found out more of binary.

I know i can develop O/S with linus but kernel is a pre developed thing.
I want to develop the kernel and all.

Anyways help would be nice I sort of feal lost on what I'm trying to do.




Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

Timo S

Do you mean assembly language It's used when programming the kernel and other things. It's a low-level language. Binary program... 10010010 101010010 101010101.... It's only numbers 1 and 0, I think that you didn't mean it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system





Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

magicalclick

Yo, forget about the binary, that's too lower level. We don't code in binary, everything is translated to int, long, double, String, date, pointers/addresses, and much higher level like Vetor3D and Texture. Now adays, people barely code the high level sorted list/heap, usually the language already provide you an optimised dynamic sorted list or 3rd party solutions. And C# and Java has automatic memory allocation and deallocation, so you don't deal with memory at all. Hell, Windows Form Layout, is not even coded in C++ anymore, it is totally text based XAML.

But if you go to UC grade colleges, you will at least learn assembly language and ALU hardware deisgn. Those two deals with micro-programming and how hardware calculate binary data.

And check out the MS Robotics forum, it should be at much lower level dealing with sensors.





Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

ReneeC

I think you all are too flip to the OP. His question may not be practical but it's a good question.

Yes, magical click we program in strings etc. But the machine has never head of a string and has no idea what one is. They are ALL software constructs and a lot of intelligence has been put into making the software look as if the machine knows all about those constructs.

It's no longer practical to learn opcodes and assembler level program. But I can say that the byproduct of playing with these things would be invaluable. Before I learn to program almost forty years ago, I did hardware design as a graduate student. I built and designed hardware adders and multipliers so I knew machines to their core and because of that, I've always had a good grasp of what the machine has to do as it executes my code. I think anyone experienced on assemler will be a better programmer for it BUT... there just isn't time enough and world.

I've recently finished the job hunting process and from the interviews what i can tell is that employers appreciate ,Net programmers BUT they are also getting tired of their "out of touchness" with machines in general. I can by threads I've read here of the years that most people here do not have much of an idea about how things works. That kind of knowledge is receeding and I think that's really sad.






Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

Timo S

You are right Renee. It's very invaluable if you practise Assembler and some other things about computer hardware and stuff like that. When I was 13 I tried to start learning Assembly (Is this a correct name for that language I think that Assembler is the debugger...) but it was a bit hard to understand all those register things and like that. But all in all it was very interesting to read about those lower level things, how to control keyboard, scree, hard drive and other components! It's not a total waste of time, I think that we really need some geniuses who still now something about Assembly and C programming in 2010.

This is an interesting thread, let's keep on talking...





Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

wulfcry

I do agree with renee but its not impossible to do one and zero's and doing so probably make your head explode as software is the real intelligence of a machine grasping the level of today's development would be hard to work on such a level you have to be a savant genius to pull something like that off. Try something like hexadecimals in the old day's on homecomputers you could go to machine level with them in a pseudo kind a form. Also you should think of a system by training yourself to acces possible everything in binary where operating systems and development enviroment offer that you dont have to think about anymore.

Oh and your keyboard has print binary instead of ascii so you have to learn typing binary to faster then you could.





Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

Timo S

Just came to my mind, if you are interested in learning OS's, you should check how Minix works:
www.minix3.org

It's full working operating system (of course there's not so many features and not so much stuff, like in Windows) which has only something like 4000 lines of code (In kernel mode). It's a very very little amount of code, and it's meant to be good for education, so I would recommend you to check it.

It's now in version 3, and it has some new goals, which are not only for teaching. Maybe you would like to check versions 1 and 2 because they are smaller and more easier. Minix is the OS which is used when teaching Operating System Programming in Universities. For example Linus Torvalds (Creator of Linux OS) learned Minix in his OS programming course in Helsinki University.

Minix is licensed under BSD license and you are able to get it's source code for free.





Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

DotNet_Guy

kcdclan:

If you are really interested in learning low level stuff, I would recommend taking a formal course in in Electrical/Computer Engineering discipline at a University in following subjects or get a text book and go through it yourself:

Logic Design and Switching Theory (e.g. Friedman)

Computer Architecture and Organization (e.g. by William Stallings)

The kind of programming you are referring to, is probably only used in VHDL/Verilog etc. You will also need very very strong mathematical background to get a good grasp of the concepts. This however, may not be helpful for computer science apps, not even in designing an operating system as I believe the most operating Systems were written in C or Assembly and not Register/Hardware Level. The assembly/C language program, once compiled is usually mapped to the Instruction Set thats provided by the vendor of the hardware. Designing an OS using such an instruction set alone would be as if you are trying to kill an elephant with a slingshot.

Happy Coding!!






Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

ReneeC

I've done assembly level programming on thhe intel platforms, not extensively but I did it. There are tools out there Such as Masm and linker putout by Microsoft so the tools are out there, they really are.

Eventually all the code we write is or thse registers that's what the compliers do. In dot net and with the IDE the is a regular step that we don't see. It used to be that you would compile something and the output was an object module or modules. The module or modules were then linked with a linker. That's what you have to when doing assembler.

It's interesting to learn and I think it really enhances a programmer's understanding of the machine and what the machine is doing. Believe it or not, employers are looking for .Net people not who are assembly level programmers, but people who have an understanding of the machine at that level.






Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

magicalclick

Yeah, to understand binary and hardware is a requirement in UC level colleges. so you will get to know them eventually.

Anyway, network, OS, hardware, and assembly programming is very different. Network is more about connection protocals, routing, domains, and encryption. OS is more about task schedualing, paging, services, and memory security. And there is binary calculations, with mainsteam binary flags and masks. Hardware is about ALU, pipline, memory loop, and so on. And assembly programming is heavily focus on coding at very very limited registers (CPU memory).

Even if you learn about binary, that doesn't mean you learn about other stuff. Anyway, IMO, you don't have to know everything to be good at your profession. But it makes you more flexible which gives you more potentials.





Re: Hot Technology Binary development?

Developer_Dan( )

I think it's great that he is so interested in the workings of networks, OS's and binary.

More programmers need to be like this.. Not for work necessarilly, but for passion.

I see day to day, programmers everywhere, that don't really know sh*@ about computers or programming, just enough to get a small task done. In my eyes they are not professional and not real programmers.

If I read a few things on space, does that make me an astronaught, or same with law, am I now a lawyer.

The answer my fellow computer geeks is NO!

I personally, continually teach myself more and more about low-level computer operations and codes each day, and as others stated before me, it does emit a better programmer at the end of the day.

Maybe the problem is the real smart people back in the day, did all the hard learning and extreme coding, while today, everyone reeps the benefits of their hard work.

Programmers back in the day, and at the level of discussion, were/are geniuses, artists and programmers.

Today we're lucky to see real-programmers out of the majority, let-alone artists.

P.S. By all means do not stop High Level !!! LOL