Michael Herman - Parallelspace


Astoria is briefly described here http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/data/bb419139.aspx and the CTP download (including some useful whitepapers) can be found here http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx FamilyID=1b6f85bc-8933-4d0e-a639-934ef85adce1&DisplayLang=en.

Windows Live Data is described here: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb447720.aspx

Are they the same If not, how are they different





Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Federico Raggi - MSFT


Hi, Michael, excellent question!

Windows Live Data and Astoria are different, but potentially complementary projects.

Both projects are similar in their goal to expose data as a service that can be consumed by Web or smart clients and on their use of a REST-like model that employs standard Internet protocols such as HTTP and XML to access, operate on, and encode data. However, Astoria is a toolkit to allow applications to expose structured data from relational databases or from Astoria*s online storage service while Windows Live Data is a service and permission mechanism that exposes information from Windows Live services such as Windows Live Contacts.

Astoria and Windows Live Data are complementary projects. Windows Live Data offers today an implementation and 'proof of concept' of the principles Astoria advocates. In the future, the Astoria toolkit could help developers create applications that consume Windows Live Data more easily.







Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Michael Herman - Parallelspace

Sounds like the usual story of 2 MS product groups not talking and/or competing in the same space. :-)

I hoped Ozzie was going to fix this sort of thing at Microsoft.







Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Yaron Y. Goland

Actually we did know about each other. Pablo and I have exchanged a few e-mails in the past. But since we were both heading toward Alphas we decided that speed was more important that coordination at this point. Now that MIX is done we will have to start coordinating since we will want our Betas to be in synch.






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Pablo Castro - MSFT

Yaron said it all, just wanted to reinforce it from my side. We have been touch since the very early stages of both projects. We participate in each other's email discussion groups, and we see design decisions coming and going from both sides.

Like any other incubation project, at the first stages you want to give freedon to the projects to explore the space. Once you get to a point where the technology seems promising (e.g. you decide you don't just kill the project) you start working on taking it to the next stage and look around to leverage as much of existing infrastructure as possible.

Even as we were leaving Las Vegas on the way back to Seattle I ran into Paul and we arranged to start looking into differences in more detail shortly.

Pablo Castro

Technical Lead

Microsoft Corporation






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Federico Raggi - MSFT

Michael:

I understand your point, but I don't think it applies in this case:

  • Windows Live Data and Astoria are not two products competing on the same space. Windows Live Data does not offer a toolkit to developers to expose their own data services, as Astoria does, and Astoria does not provides a permission system and an access mechanism to Windows Live services such as Windows Live Contacts.
  • Having more than a team working on solutions to similar or complementary problems as in this case is a good thing if the problems or the solutions are new and experimental. Remember than both projects are publishing alpha or CTP releases. The goal of an alpha or CTP release i to provide a 'proof of concept' implementation and receive feedback from users. They are intended as experimental and learning tools between Microsoft and the community. In cases like this, having different teams trying different approaches is good because it fosters innovation. I can't imagine working on a company where some executive, not matter how brilliant he or she is, dictates every detail or imposes a single point of view that kills other people's ideas and efforts. On the other hand, different teams providing incompatible solutions that differ only on their implementation but offer no new ideas and reinvent the wheel every time, is a waste of time and effort. In this case, I totally agree that it shoudl be fixed.






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Jamie Thomson

Yaron Y. Goland wrote:

Actually we did know about each other. Pablo and I have exchanged a few e-mails in the past. But since we were both heading toward Alphas we decided that speed was more important that coordination at this point. Now that MIX is done we will have to start coordinating since we will want our Betas to be in synch.

Wow. Up till now I've been getting excited (I almost said super-excited but I didn't cos I dont work for MSFT ) about Live data and Atroia cmopletely seperately but to hear that they'll probably dovetail together at some point is fantastic.

I'll look out on blogs for news of this. I already subscribe to Pablo's. Yaron, do you have a blog Federico, do you

Thanks

Jamie






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Jamie Thomson

Jamie Thomson wrote:

I'll look out on blogs for news of this. I already subscribe to Pablo's. Yaron, do you have a blog

Forget it. i think Ive found it! Smile

http://www.goland.org/






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Federico Raggi - MSFT

Jamie:

My new blog is at http://webreloaded.spaces.live.com/. I had a blog on MSDN but I have not unpdated it since I moved to the Windows Live Developer Platform team. I'll be post the status and ideas around Windows Live Data on my new blog on Spaces.






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Jamie Thomson

Is there any more news on synergy between these two technologies Yaron talks about betas being in sync but the EDM team put out a beta last week which i assume included Astoria but I don't see any co-ordinated beta coming out of Live Data.

Do you have any juicy news for us guys

-Jamie






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Jamie Thomson

For anyone still reading, there is updated info here: http://jamiethomson.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!550F681DAD532637!1852.entry

Still waiting for your first blog post Federico Smile

-Jamie






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Federico Raggi - MSFT

Jamie:

I know I should be updating my blog, but maybe because I'm lazy or is just my personality, I prefer this forum to get feedback and engage with other developers. I like the two way, conversational, nature of the forums much more than the soliloquial characteristic of blogs.

Anyway, I think you are right and I should pay attention to the blog too.






Re: Are "Windows Live Data" and "Astoria" the same or different?

Jamie Thomson

No problem Federico. My tongue was firmly implanted in my cheek when I said that!

-Jamie