wgpubs

I've heard conflicting messages from folks in MS and I'm looking for some clarification on the following:

1. When will VS2008 et al be RTM'd

2. What databases will be supported by LinqToSql at that time

3. For ea. supported database, what features will ... and what features will not work


Thanks much - wg



Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Fabrice MARGUERIE

1. Before the end of the year. No official date announced yet.
2. Only SQL Server 2005 or 2000 variants. No Oracle, do DB2, no Access, and no extensibility model. You'll have to resort to the ADO.NET Entity Framework for other databases.
3. LINQ to SQL supports stored procedures, user-defined functions, lazy loading, compiled queries, inheritence, relationships, 1-to-many relationships but not many-to-many out of the box, etc.






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Jim Wooley

2. In addition to SQL Server 2000 and 2005, it will also support SQL Express. I believe Compact Edition will be supported as well in the final drop.

Jim Wooley

http://www.LinqInAction.net






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Dinesh Kulkarni - MSFT

Yes. That is by and large correct.

One small correction:

SQL Server Compact (SSC) is already supported in beta2 by LINQ to SQL runtime and SqlMetal. It is not supported by the visual designer in beta2 (or in RTM) - it is being worked on for post-RTM.

What (if any) other databases beyond SQL Server editions are supported post-V1 will be determined by overall customer feedback.


Thanks,
Dinesh






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Anders Borum

Is SQL Server 2008 not supported in LINQ to SQL v1.0!

If not, what are the reasons for not supporting this major upgrade of SQL Server that provides a host of new datatypes that's been missed for years (DateTimeOffset, HierarchyID)






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Dinesh Kulkarni - MSFT

SQL Server 2008 ships after Visual Studio 2008 so it is s little hard to say that it is supported when Visual Studio/.NET Framework 3.5 RTM. We have done some sanity checking with SQL Server 2008 CTP4 for SQL Server 2005 databases so far.

But for new features, it makes more sense to consider post-VS 2008 CTPs/releases as candidates.

Dinesh






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Jon Miller

What happened to the provider model Will it be in a future release Also, someone mentioned ADO.NET Entities. I thought that was dropped also Or, was that just LINQ to Entities From my standpoint, LINQ is unusable. I can't believe there isn't even going to be a provider model. Microsoft has had that since the early nineties with ODBC. Someone mentioned something about customer feedback determining what additional databases are supported. Why is that If there was a provider model, the DBMS vendors could just provide their own drivers. Also, the fact that there isn't even a many-to-many relationship is pretty sad. It looks like I'll be sticking with NHibernate for the forseeable future. After all these years Microsoft still can't figure out how to implement an ORM Why don't they just copy Java Persistence Also, why even enumerate all the different versions of SQL Server Are they really different enough to draw a distinction





Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Jim Wooley

The entity framework was not dropped, it just wasn't going to make it into the VS 2008 product cycle. The plan as I last heard it is that they were going to ship entity support, which can go cross-database platforms some time after 2008 RTM (6 months ). They recently shipped beta 2 of the entity framework which you can get at http://msdn.microsoft.com/data. It includes one piece that made them push the framework back in the first place: designer support and tooling.

Regardless if you use LINQ to SQL, LINQ to Entities (which is not dropped) learning LINQ will still get you a head-up in the crowd.

Jim Wooley

http://www.devauthority.com/blogs/jwooley






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Anders Borum

Dinesh,

I see your point with SQL Server 2008 shipping after VS 2008. How do you plan on adding support for SQL Server 2008 from Visual Studio/.NET Framework 3.5 Are you already scheduling Visual Studio/.NET Framework 3.5 SP1 for release when SQL Server 2008 ships

The reason I'm asking is that I'll be facing customers that want to deploy SQL Server 2008 as soon as possible - and at the same time use the latest version of the .NET Framework as foundation for new major projects.

Have to say I'm pretty disappointed with that decision (and I bet I'm not the only one around here). I was really looking forward to leverage the new datatypes in SQL Server (not from LINQ to SQL but in SPROCs) with the release of Visual Studio/.NET Framework 3.5 .

There's a list of new datatypes in SQL Server 2008 that solves a lot of problems (again referencing the DateTimeOffset, HierarchyID and FileStream). Content Management Systems have great use for such types and while I understand that LINQ to SQL won't be able to handle these until a later revision, we'd still be able to utilize them in SPROCs.

As an example I don't see myself using the HierarchyID datatype in LINQ to SQL queries; I would rather handle hierarchical operations (insertions, reparenting and deletions) in SPROCs because of the additional T-SQL required to calculate new hierarcical parent values.

Pretty please with sugar on top - don't cut off SQL Server 2008.






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

wgpubs

You know ... this is what I thought.

And someone at MSFT needs to tell this to their dev evangelists who are spreading misinformation about this very question. As an example, I recently attended an MSDN event down here in La Jolla, CA which tackled LINQ to SQL in one of the sessions. Afterwards, I go down and ask the speaker (one of the dev. evangelists in southern CA) what databases Linq To Sql is going to support ... her answer: "All the major databases." I say, "So Oracle, DB2, MySql, PostGres, etc..." She says, "I'm not sure about MySql, but the other ones will be supported."

In addition to the apparent limite database support ... off-topic here but ... Linq To Sql doesn't seem to work at all well in a multi-tiered environment. Based on my own experience and reading below, I don't see how this ORM can contend with the already established ORMs that do. Maybe I'm wrong. But if so, no one has pointed that out.

http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/134095.aspx
http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/135659.aspx

- wg





Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Anders Borum

Maybe the evangelist was referring to the planned supported databases (not necessarily available in v1.0 of LINQ to SQL). There has also been confusion between LINQ to SQL and the Entity Framework (as far as I'm concerned, EF will support multiple databases and according to the lead architect IBM has already presented providers for DB2 and Informix - as seen on Channel 9).

I'm still looking for an answer to the question on when LINQ to SQL (and .NET 3.5) is going to add official support for SQL Server 2008 or the designer / API is going to support SQL Server 2005 equivalent datatypes.

Dinesh






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Anders Borum

Does anybody from the LINQ to SQL team want to answer the question in the previous message Please don't tell us you're planning support for SQL Server 2008 in when .NET 4.0 ships.






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Keith Farmer

There are significant differences in what's available in SQL 2000, SQL 2005, and SQL CE, which affect how (.. whether .. to what extent ..) queries can be translated. For example, Skip() is possible for a much more interesting set of cases in 2005 than are available in 2000, because 2005 added the ROW_NUMBER function. Matt Warren's blog has discussed CROSS APPLY recently, as well.






Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

WilliamStacey

Dinesh Kulkarni - MSFT wrote:

Yes. That is by and large correct.

One small correction:

SQL Server Compact (SSC) is already supported in beta2 by LINQ to SQL runtime and SqlMetal. It is not supported by the visual designer in beta2 (or in RTM) - it is being worked on for post-RTM.

What (if any) other databases beyond SQL Server editions are supported post-V1 will be determined by overall customer feedback.


Thanks,
Dinesh

I second the need to get SSC working in the designer as using sqlmetal is a bit difficult, especially during dev where the local cache db is changing during dev.





Re: LINQ Project General What DBMSs will be supported in the RTM?

Tim Mallalieu - MSFT

Trying to roll up a couple answers here:

On SQL Server 2K8 support with LINQ to SQL:

LINQ to SQL and SqlMetal shall work with SQL2K8, we are working on ensuring we get the requisite test coverage. We are not committing to anything as yet in terms of additional support for any new data types that ship with SQL2K8.

On Provider Model

The LINQ to SQL team has been looking at a Provider Model but the bits that ship in Orcas do not have a public Provider Model. There may be some confusion in the MS field about this.

LINQ to Entities (the Entity Framework) supports the ADO.NET 3.0 provider model which has extra "services" for supporting Entities over 3rd party databases. There is work underway with the major provider writers and DB vendors to support the 3.0 provider model (an evolution of the 2.0 provider model).